RichmondLiberty.org

file GA08-01-24
General Assembly, Thursday January 24rd, 2008

The main meeting Thursday was 5:00 pm, the House Militia, Police and Public Safety - Subcommittee #1, Firearms. They have numerous bills regarding weapons. The Chair announces that they'll attempt to group bills into groups that address similar issues. This is a SUBcommittee meeting, so they will only be making recommendations to the fill committee, which will take a recorded vote on each bill.

HB608, Eisenberg, was incorporated into HB281.
HB281, Toscano, would prohibit persons who are subject to protective orders from possessing a firearm. They are presently prohibited from purchasing or transporting one, but may keep one at their home or business if one is already there.

Patron explains past case where man subject to protective order was waiting near his wife's apartment, drunk, with a gun. There was a protective order requiring him to keep away from her, but she wasn't present so it didn't apply; likewise, he wasn't IN her apartment.

Police finally arrested the man for being drunk in public. They would have liked to have been able to haul him back to court for violating the protective order.

Philip Van Cleave (VCDL) and Mike Stollenwerk (FFPC) opposed the bill. Neither wanted to see someone stripped of their means of defense, at home or at work, without a very good reason. Stollenwerk pointed out that there's no procedure laid out for what to do with weapons, how to either return them or dispose of them, etc.

Discussion: Delegate Griffith explains why present law doesn't prevent possession -- self-defense, as noted by opponents. Other members ask why not other charges as well, with suggestions.

Motion to report fails for lack of a second. [This means that no action has been taken on the bill. Since the subcommittee has moved on to other things, the bill is effectively dead. OTOH, there might always be a successful motion in full Committee to bring it back, and if that does not happen there might still be a successful motion before the full House to "discharge the Committee of its responsibilities and consider this bill directly". There are many rules here, starting with Mr. Jefferson's and only then proceeding to Roberts and more . . . like the man said, "You have to know the territory!"]

HB814, Ward: Protective orders to include information on whether or not respondent possesses firearm.

Patron explains that this is how the Federal government does it, and that it might protect police or other personnel who are called upon to serve the notice or to respond to violation of it.

Questions: How would you know whether or not the person owns a firearm? Is this _de_facto_ registration? Perhaps just ASK the person whether or not they own a firearm? Perhaps ask the complainant? Maybe check the database to see whether the subject has a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit)? Why pry into this anyway in absence of trouble?

Motion to report fails for lack of a second.

HB370, Carrico
HB653, Wright
HB843, Sherwood
HB982, Nutter
All deal with protecting the rights of privacy of people who hold CHPs.
All four bills are incorporated into HB982, which grew out of the FOIA (Freedom Of Information Act) Council recommendations.

At present, these are a matter of public record, available to anyone who goes down to the courthouse in each locality. In addition, the State Police maintains a master electronic record, which has been open for public inspection.

The problem appeared when a Roanoke paper accessed the State Police file, and published on their website the names and addresses of all 135,000 people in Virginia who hold CHPs. Included among these were people who are retired after serving in law enforcement, and people who have permits because they have been the targets of death threats or attempted murders.

These bills would each add privacy protections.

Discussion: Should nonprofit groups have access to the list for public-education purposes? should State Police be in business of providing this info even for such groups? Should private contractors (i.e. Lexis/Nexus) have access? How about when they're dong contract work for law enforcement? Should only the state-level list be withheld, while various local lists be left as public information?

After technical amendments (we'll see them when the full Committee meets), the motion to recommend passes.

HB535, Mathieson
HB657, Griffith
HB10544, Scott
These bills deal with guns and court orders.

Delegate Griffith requests that his bill be rereferred to the House Courts of Justice Committee, which has already spent many hours dealing with these issues. Delegates Scott and Mathieson agree for their bills to also go there.

Done.

HB1414, Scott, Concealed handgun permits to be revoked by issuing court and State Police to be notified.

Questions about when this would take effect -- apparently after appeals are exhausted. Agreement.

Approved for full Committee.

HB899, Scott: Semiautomatic handguns; sale thereof, microstamping.

This would require that new automatics be made with tiny codes in the breech and firing pins, which would stamp information on any cartridge fired from the weapon. This is already law in California, taking effect in two years, and most large manufacturers plan to be in full compliance. Some small manufacturers plan to forgo the California market rather than go to the expense of modifying their equipment.

The law would not apply to weapons manufactured before January 1, 2010.

Questions on effect of the law, how likely these weapons are to be used by criminals, could they be filed off, would they last, etc.

Philip Van Cleave (VCDL) has several points, including one that i hadn't thought of: empty shells from a firin range could be picked up and later used by criminals to mislead law enforcement.

Motion to approve fails -- no second.

HB529, Pogge, Affects Concealed handgun permits; renewal and replacement.

Makes two sensible changes in the CHP laws. Permit is good for five years before needing to be renewed; this makes the renewed permit expire five years after the old one expires, rather than five years from the date it's issued. Other change allows replacement permit to be issued showing new address if you move. $10 fee for this.

Everybody likes it. Substitute version accepted, approved.

HB873, Johnson, Deals with the "proof of competency" required for issuance of a CHP. These are required, and there are several ways specified in the law to demonstrate this, including having been honorably discharged from the armed services.

The bill was prompted by a situation where a judge refused to issue a CHP to a WWII veteran, on the grounds that his discharge wasn't recent enough. Instead, he had to go to the trouble and expense of taking a course to relearn what he already knew. (The veteran in question had travelled several hundred miles to be present at today's hearin, and received a round of applause.)

Philip Van Cleave (VCDL) had a technical amendment to suggest, which was adopted.

After a bit more discussion, bill was approved for full Committee.

HB1220, Bowling, Concealed handguns; allows law-enforcement officers on long-term leave to carry without permit.
Patron explains that some police officers may be on long-term leave recuperating from injuries, and that they may and do run into people whom they've arrested.

Approved with very little discussion.

HB169, Albo, Concealed weapons; adds box cutters to list.

Patron has requested that it be stricken from docket.

Done.

HB588, Marsden, Includes pneumatic guns among the "deadly weapons" that are not allowed to be carried concealed without a permit.

Explanation that these weapons are increasingly being used by gangs, and at schools, in the Fairfax area. They can be and are being pumped up to the point where they can be deadly.

Chesterfield police officer shows recent local activity involving these.
State Police officer points out that the Baskin-Robbins shooting was instigated by a robber who was carrying a pneumatic gun. He also relates an incident in which he nearly killed a person who was armed with what turned out to be a "toy" gun.

Delegate Griffith points out problems with the scope of the bill, in that as written it will almost certainly end up catching kids with BB guns. Work needed, no time to do that now. Suggests carrying the bill over to next year.

Done.

HB697, BaCote, yet another attempt to allow localities to ban guns from public libraries

Same arguments in favor.
Same arguments against.

Motion to report fails for lack of second.

HB810, Ward, Machine gun registration; Superintendent of State Police to be notified of change of address within 24 hours.

Police say they want it. They provide COA form, but cannot compel use. They say very simple.

Chuck Williams, private citizen, opposes. Shows Federal paperwork requirements, considerably more onerous.
PvC, VCDL, oppose as useless, redundant in view of Federal database already in place.
Mike Stollenwerk opposes because of non-help from State Police.
Both ask why 24 hour requirement.

Sorry, but I wasn't able to record the action on this one; we'll see at the meeting of the full Committee.

Griffith asks for redo on referral of HB carryover, pending action by full Committee. Done. Bill is now still alive and before subcommittee.

Committee adjourned just after 7:30. Blistering pace, too fast for my typing.

All of these bills will be before tomorrow's meeting of the full HMPPS Committee.

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Friday meetings of interest:

9 am, House Militia, Police and Public Safety; House Room C, General Assembly Building

House and Senate meet at eleven.

1/2 hr after adjournment, Senate Courts of Justice and Education and Health Joint Subcommittee on Proposed Mental Health Legislation; Senate Room B, General Assembly Building -- Mental health bills such as House subcommittee has been dealing with.

1/2 hr aft House Courts of Justice; House Room C, General Assembly Building -- Mostly mental health bills

Immediately upon adjournment of the full committee: House Courts of Justice - Criminal Subcommittee; House Room C, General Assembly Building -- Animal fighting

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DETAILS:
To see the summary, text, status, estimated cost, votes, or other details on any bill, go to:
http://leg1.state.va.us/. Click on:
“Bills & Resolutions – status of individual bills and related information”.
At the text-entry block, enter the bill and type just as I have it listed above. (Use “SB921”, not “S.B. 921”, for example.)

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REMINDER:
http://leg1.state.va.us/ and http://legis.state.va.us/
These are the two websites where you can access nearly anything you want to know about practically anything related to the General Assembly. Use them!